Peter Nichol - The Hiring Partner Perspective (Unedited) podcast

Peter Nichol: Hire For Learning Intelligence

Jennifer Zaborowski: Wide-Angled vs. Laser Focused
Suzanne Wolko: Mind The Gap Bias

By the end of this interview with CIO & CTO, Peter Nichol, two of his books were in my shopping basket (but don’t tell him I was multi-tasking!).

If you’re busy hiring for IQ or EQ, you’ll want to hear why you should be hiring for LQ! Lost? Don’t worry, in 31 minutes you’ll have heard why!

Plus Peter shares his tips for interviewing, how he’s grown as a hiring manager, and of course why you’ll benefit from partnering better with recruiters.

 

Huge thank you to episode sponsor WORQDRIVE!

 

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Interview Transcript

Katrina Collier
Peter Nichol, thank you so much for joining The Hiring Partner Perspective (Unedited) podcast. Now my understanding is you’re a business and tech executive who is recognised for digital innovation. But what really impressed me was the fact you’re an author of four books. Having written one, I find that very impressive. That other than, you know, welcome to the show, I’d love for you to tell us a little bit about your new book “Think, Lead, Disrupt how innovative minds can connect strategy to execution?

Peter Nichol 1:15
Hey, good morning. Well, thanks for having me on the show. Yeah, I was excited to put that out. It’s been a couple of years in the making here. Really, the focus of “Think, Lead, Disrupt”, is around how do you kind of get world-class ideas out of the leaders continuously? So how do we, you know, the best leaders in your organisation continuously come up with, you know, earth-shattering type of ideas that gain traction and are sticky in the organisation and ultimately connect strategy to execution. So as you kind of look at the marketplace, and the environment, from a business perspective, these days, you get a lot of different types of tech, you know, you hear AI and machine learning, and blockchain and digital analytics and a ton of other buzzwords. And it was funny, I was talking with some other biotech leaders yesterday. And what we came up with was, you know, if everybody’s using artificial intelligence and machine learning, and everyone has the same exact car, what’s the differentiating factor in your business, and I think that part of the, the opportunity for executives and aspiring leaders, you know, even mid-level leaders is to try to really figure out what that diversification strategy looks like, and how you leverage those technologies to be diverse. And I think it’s kind of a misnomer, that you’re probably not going to get a lot of great diversity out of, you know, using technology that everyone else is using, if everybody’s using Word and you use Microsoft Word. Are you game-changing? And you know, throwing up the business? Probably not. So, you know, it’s it’s interesting to look at some of the opportunities in a different way.

Katrina Collier 2:52
Does it come back to the people then? I’m hoping you say that having written a book that’s all about people.

Peter Nichol 2:57
Yeah, really, the goal is how you connect stuff together, and that’s kind of. Yeah, Individual and a unique perspective that different leaders look at. So you have two folks, and they look at the same stuff. And one person says, Oh, this technology will be the future, and then somebody else says, “well, what if we engage people this way, and leverage that as an enabler as opposed to the thing that we focus on, that’s the most critical and I think that’s really where you start to get the differentiation, is how people start to look at and the way the leaders build information and collect information and aggregate information and leverage it in there, into their businesses, to, you know, to provide that differentiation.

Katrina Collier 3:39
So then, I guess it comes back to the recruitment part. Now, of course, you know, Debi Easterday said, I had to talk to you because you partner with her really well. So.

Peter Nichol 3:50
She’s amazing. Yeah.

Katrina Collier 3:52
She so is. I have not met one person that doesn’t adore her. She’s just, she’s so good at it. And she takes recruiting to a whole level above as well. Um, but then. So obviously, we’re looking for a mindset, aren’t we? When it comes to recruiting the kind of people that you’re talking about? That, does that become hard to recruit? Like, how do you assess for that kind of a mindset?

Peter Nichol 4:15
Yeah, exactly. I think that’s, that’s really where we kind of dialled in, you know, most, most recently, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, you know, years ago, when it was a, you know, nobody heard of them. And now, you know, with vaccines, and you know, monoclonal antibodies and other types of progressive biologics, they’re in the news a lot. But you know, at the time, we were trying to build a team, and the team only had a couple people on it. So how do you build this team, when you’re trying to scale you want to hire the right people? You know, you don’t want to overhire but you want to, you want them to be a specialist, but not too specialised, because you only have so many people on the team, and it really comes down to the mindset of the individuals you bring on and my take is, you know, I hire for learning intelligence. So if you think about you know IQ, which is the ability to know and EQ, which is the ability to feel. LQ is kind of something that’s not really talked about as much, which is the ability to learn, and it’s kind of considered learning agility. So, you know, if somebody came into your organisation who was an expert in, you know, whatever the technology is, you know. A couple years ago, are they really going to be that valuable? In a couple of years? I don’t know, not if they haven’t continued to learn the new progressive technologies and with data and analytics, and some of the, you know, new progressive technologies, it’s really, it’s really the determining factor on more of how quickly you can learn concepts that you’re not familiar with, as opposed to, you know, saying, Well, I have 20 years in data. Okay, I have 20 years in data, too. So what So, you know, how are you getting that next level of education or that next level experience, or how are you going to be able to, to transform and do a data journey where you’re doing digital, you know, digitisation, transformation, organisationally, if you don’t have that next level of knowledge, and that’s really, I think, what comes down to when we do the hiring, you know, for the teams, I lead, I’m really interested in learning intelligence. So if you’re not an expert in the AWS cluster that we use, or, you know, you’re not a programmer, you know, executive or a director that has deep knowledge in that space, I’m really less concerned about that, and I’m more concerned about how you think and how you learn. And what I’ve found is that by doing a combination of, you know, the four different dimensions of learning, which are self reflection, self adaptation, the learning experience and clustering, you start to realize that people who understand how they learn, they can pick up concepts extremely quickly, than others just can’t pick up. And it’s not that they can’t learn, you know, I’m not a mechanic or, or that type, but I could figure out how to work a car, if I had to, but it’s like, not really where I’m comfortable. And I think that we find folks that are very comfortable and learning some of this progressive technology, or, you know, frankly, on the people side, the softer side, you know, how to understand empathy, and how to relate. And you now, with all the craziness that’s going on, it’s really important that we’re in a call a couple days ago with some executives from the UK, and it was like, you know, one of the biggest challenges is, how do you empathise with your team, you know, five years ago was like, hey, this is what I need, and talk to me when it’s completed. And now it’s like, well, you know, what’s going on? Everything’s fine. No, No, but seriously, how are things going, again, they’re fine, and you kind of have to slowly peel that off to, to get people to open up a little bit and, and say, well, you know, things aren’t too great, this happened, or that happened, and, and be a little bit more realistic and listen to some of the concerns. And that wraps into, you know, having a team that has high degrees of trust, and high degrees of collaboration. And if you can do that, then you start to limit your upscale potential on that high performing potential team. Inversely, if you can tap into that, then you get a team that really starts to gel well, and it can perform, you know, much at a much higher level than and more consistently, than a lot of other teams, and that’s really where it gets exciting.

Katrina Collier 8:20
So how do you interview for that? Because there’s a level of vulnerability that has to come in, isn’t it to sort of say, well, I made this mistake, and I learned from moto. I’m not things aren’t going so great. So I pivoted and did this, and that, because those can still be that old, particularly here in Britain, the stiff upper lip. I’m trying my best British when I’m Australian, even though I’ve lived here a long time, it’s not working. But that, because we’re all under a pretence. So how have you found that you can best? Like get those questions? Do you? Are you vulnerable yourself when you’re interviewing? Or have you gotten something a tip you can share?

Peter Nichol 8:57
Sure, sure. So my first thought is, you know, you don’t really need smarter people, you need smarter learners. So what we’re trying to find is people that have that natural organisational agility, and they can just move through the organisation. But Likewise, when new topics or concepts come up, and it could be on the people side, it could be on the tech side, it could be on the organisational, it could be change management, whatever. They’re able to pick up those concepts and apply a fit for purpose approach very quickly. So what you find is you don’t have the conventional questions about, you know, tell me about yourself, because what you end up receiving is a story that they probably heard, you know, I think of how many times I interviewed somebody and they said, and you know, you get a well, let me tell you about yourself. It’s like you, you end up hiring really good storytellers and not really good learners, or you’ll bring on people that have you know, after the fiftieth interview, you can tell that story pretty good. You know, and you’re not really measuring their ability to come up to speed. So you start to have to think about different ways and ideas of how to present situational environment questions. You know, not like how many ants in New York City, but like more practical type stuff, where it’s, it’s not an analytical test, it’s more of a thinking test. And, and there isn’t really a prep for it. So it’s, you know, it can be a lot of different things. You know, one funny thing we, I use sometimes is like, you know, it was when we were on site, and now it’s a little virtual, so it’s little bit different. But you look out the window, and you see like a car in a parking lot of sea of cars. And they’d be like, Alright, your challenge is to move that car as fast as possible. How do you do it? And it’s like, What do you mean, how do I do it? It’s like, well, that car stuck there, and we need to move it immediately. How do you get it out of that parking spot? And you’ll get all these funny, different answers. You know, like, well, I talked to security, and it’s like, well, there are 3500 people in this building, so they’re going to what broadcasts to everybody that move that one car that probably nobody remembers, you know, the guy is probably at lunch anyways. So you start to go through these different examples of like, well, how would you do that? Yeah, it starts at kind of like a conceptual, you know, conservative approach, it ends up with like, well, I’ll just attach it to my car, and I just push it out of the way.

Katrina Collier 11:18
Yeah. And that was one of the scenarios going through my head. But it’s currently snowing in London. So I was thinking I’d probably slip from my way out to the car. Yeah.

Peter Nichol 11:27
I’m in Connecticut, outside of New York, and it’s snowing here to.

Katrina Collier 11:30
You would be sliding out there as well. It’s funny how I immediately I went into problem solving mode? That’s an excellent question.

Peter Nichol 11:37
So what you find is you, you’re able to you like. My take is like, you know, you bring that person on, and I’m less concerned about all their background, I’m more concerned about their collective background as a relates to the role that I’m trying to hire for. So you know, why you left your last position, or the great thing you did your last position, I’m less concerned about that, and more concerned about how you take that collective knowledge and wisdom and apply it in situations that we’re trying to solve today in this scenario, and how they brought, and that kind of goes to like how people learn, you know, whether you have a degree from from Harvard, or you learned on your on your own through, you know, MOOCs online massive courses, doesn’t really make a difference to me, as long as you can apply that. And there’s a big shift, and a lot of like, how you collect that information? I think people are less concerned about formalised academia and more interested in about just the knowledge, like how you got it is less important. And those scenarios that are learning focus really kind of dial into that.

Katrina Collier 12:38
Yeah, which is actually really lovely to hear, because not everybody can go to university or college. So that’s great to hear. So how did you, I mean, you’re a novice interviewer at some point, or novice hiring leader, how did you learn all of this yourself? Was it trial and error? Or was there an aha moment?

Peter Nichol 12:57
I probably started out as a bad hiring manager. I mean, honestly, you know, 20 years ago, I didn’t know anything. But I think, as you know, as I build teams up, I started to realise, like common traits, and that’s kind of why I wrote learning intelligence, and I started to realise common things that people had who excelled and it wasn’t, and obviously, people who are smart learners, you know, they tend to be brighter than not. However, it’s not necessarily the case. And what you start to do is, you start to get some people that are a little bit eccentric, and have niche knowledge areas, but collectively can work and collaborate really well and high perform. And I think over over time, as I started to hire different people, and I’m like, wow, I thought that person will be a perfect fit, and they didn’t work out. Why didn’t they work out on paper, all 10 of the 10 boxes were checked. And it’s like, well, that wasn’t really good enough. And, you know, even today, I think there’s a tendency to, to hire clones, you know, the existing person that left it’s like, well, our person who left I talked to somebody else. There was something that came up, and I was like you know, they came up and it was, like, you know, these are the 10 things we need, you know, you look at the background of the person who left it’s like, those are the 10 things they had. It’s like, okay, you know, that person’s path led them there. Okay, there’s 100 other paths that maybe get you there and a little bit wiser. And I think that part of the learning experience, you know, as you kind of go through, you know, your career and, and learn as a young manager, and then more more experience is you find out what, what what you know, ultimately works and what doesn’t work, and a lot of the behavior questions like, personally, I just don’t think they work. You know.

Katrina Collier 14:37
Throw them out them out.

Peter Nichol 14:38
Tell me about a team that you worked in that was you know, stressful and how you pulled yourself out. Okay, great. I can tell you 100 stories like that. And I can tell you 20 that somebody else told me because like, yeah,

Katrina Collier 14:49
And we probably won’t get the truth.

Peter Nichol 14:51
Well, that’s the kind of the bottom line. You’re not really, I’m gonna answer the question. I mean, I have enough experience to answer the question fine, but it’s like somebody else maybe doesn’t have enough experience and answers their buddies answer, but they’re a little, but they’re, you know, fairly bright. And they can just retell a story like anybody else can, you know, a joke at a bar. And now you bring that person and then you’re like, I don’t know why they didn’t fit in, they gave me the perfect story. Now, they gave you the sort of you wanted to hear, but they didn’t really apply in context, and it wasn’t really an adaptive type of approach where you go in, and there’s this concept called, you know, Zero Based Learning, or ZBL, and the idea is, you start with zero knowledge. And, you know, if you if you start something and I say, Oh, yeah, we’re gonna do this transformation, or we have to hire 50 people, you may just immediately think, Okay, well, I hired I hired a team of 30, before or I placed a team of whatever, yeah, okay, I have an idea of kind of what they need. But when you start to do something that is, you know, way outside that realm, and you really don’t have any pre, you know, some prior knowledge. I always talk about, like, what one of the questions I kind of ask is, like, you know, you’ve been assigned this project called, you know, r/Robotics, and it’s a new technology, and of course, everybody’s trying to look it up, but it doesn’t exist, because I made it up. And, and it’s like, what, tell me about how you’d implement that technology people like, you know, Oh, Jesus, I don’t really know the technology. But that’s not really the question. The question is, why don’t you come up to speed on this cool new technology? You know, it could be AI or blockchain or whatever. But where do you get your base? How do you get grounded? How do you start that journey of education and learning? And that’s really what’s more interesting, just like when you get assigned an initiative, or a product or a project or whatever? How do you get up to speed you don’t know the team, you don’t really know what they do, you know, even if you know, the area, you don’t know, how they operate on it, and what their operating model is. So those types of skills, I think, are really, really. Essential. Yeah, they’re really essential, they really help map into the current role well, and it’s harder to kind of test those.

Katrina Collier 17:04
So that would be I would say, from what you said, so far, the top tip for hiring managers, which is start looking for the learning. Actually, I would call it in a way, curiosity as well. Like, I always think the best recruiters, for example, have curiosity. If they don’t know how to do something, they’ll go find out, they’re always asking questions. It’s a similar kind of thing, isn’t it? That wanting to learn, and know,

Peter Nichol 17:27
A lot of times, you know, you find that the folks that really excel well on these roles that have, you know, high learning intelligence, like outside of work, they’re doing those types of things, you know, they’re, they’re a swim coach, they are, they tinker with their cars, on the weekend, they, you know, run a book club, they do this, or they do whatever, and as a result, they have that kind of natural interest in continuing to learn different things. And it’s, it’s kind of cool when you pull a whole team together, and everybody has a weird, different background, you know, of what they think is kind of cool. And you start to talk about it, it’s like, you know, one person like genealogy and one person, like, you know, his history of presidents and one person like this, and you start to add it all up, and you’re like, this is an interesting group. But together, they just work really well and function really well, and I think that’s a, that’s systemic of, of the modern hiring process that isn’t so conventionally of, you know, tell me about a time when x

Katrina Collier 18:31
Do you think in a way, this is gonna sound strange, but in a way, because we now are working remotely, thanks to this little pesky pandemic. That actually, we’re getting this insight into people’s lives, which is, like, you know, you can see in my home, you can see behind people, you see their children, suddenly, their dogs, their animals, whatever it is. And actually, you do, people start to they’re a lot more open about all these interests that they have outside of work. In a way, it’s sort of helping you with your hiring. I guess. I know what I’m trying to say, Yeah. You’re you’re being proactive and asking for the insight, but actually, we sort of see it in the way as well.

Peter Nichol 19:12
Yeah, yeah. It’s a fine line on the hiring. I think like, once you have your team in place, you have an opportunity to extend, you know, a little bit more into into what’s happening. I think, as a, as a leader, you’re more apt to be vulnerable and say, Hey, you know what? I’m stressed out today. I gotta be honest, you know, this, and this happened and why don’t we touch base tomorrow on this unless it’s critical? Inversely, I think your team is more emotionally aware of what’s going on, on the hiring. You know, when you’re hiring, I think it’s a little bit tough because of some of the legal stuff of you know, what you actually say on those calls, but I would say, obviously, people can volunteer stuff. The flip side of that is like that inherent, you know, bias of, you know, do they like kids do they not like Kids, do they like this? Do they not like that, but there’s a lot, a lot of like, you know, unknown biases that I think go into there. But I think, in general, that what I do see is, there’s a lot more transparency on what people are looking for. I think there, before it would be like, I’ll take any job anywhere, as like, Okay, good to know. And now it’s like, well, I’m only looking for this area only looking for this specific type of role or this industry, I think people are starting to specialise a little bit more, because they have such a broader reach, you know, when you start to have remote work, instead of just saying, you know, you’re only in the London area, you’re only in the Sydney area, or the New York City area, or whatever. It’s like, no, I can work on the west coast, I can work a couple hours off, you know, in, in North America, and I know California hours, that’s not really a big deal. So now I can specialise and say, well, I want a company that’s, you know, this size, and I want a team that’s this big, and this is kind of the role I’m looking to do. I think that a lot of a lot more people are interested in more specific and are able to specify where they want to go a little bit more than they would, you know, five years ago where you get a random person, and they’d be like, yeah, we want to work there. And then you find out that they’re, you know, 1200 miles away, and they’re, and they’re flying up every night. And it’s like, okay, how’s that working out for you? And then you find out that, you know, we had one person that, you know, was had a pretty long commute. And, and that was just how it was, and he was a consultant. And that was the whole kind of life, and he was very comfortable with that. We had another person who was like, wife gave him an ultimatum. It’s like your job for me. And yeah, but he’s like

okay, obviously, he left, you know. Yeah. It’s like, alright, you know, so I think people are a little bit more picky on where they’re looking to work now, you know,

Katrina Collier 21:58
And I think that’s really important for hiring leaders going forward as well. Like, you know, this is going to pass, but I think people have now gone exactly like you’re saying, like, I can work more flexibly, but also, I don’t want to do those long commutes. It’s unhealthy, I’m not enjoying it. I’m hoping that companies won’t just go well, I’m sorry, but it’s five days in the office, you know, because it just, I think they’ll lose the opportunity to work with really amazing people. So, obviously, Debi Easterday. Bless her, we love her. How do you how do you partner with her, like when you you’re hiring, and you’re saying, you know, I want someone who can learn you, I take it, you’re taking the time to talk to the recruiters and explain what you’re needing? Mm hmm. Is that what you do?

Peter Nichol 22:41
I mean, I think I think instead of thinking about a vendor, you got to think about, like, you know, a strategic partner, and, and shift the mindset a little bit about of who you’re working with, you know. Ultimately, I started working with Debi, because I trust her. So I do think, and I know a bunch of other, you know, amazing recruiters that are really authentic, and just world class, I think that when you find those individuals, you don’t really care where they’re working, you know, like, what, where Debi was working, I didn’t really care, I just wanted to work with her. And I think the same thing with Wes and a bunch of other people that I’ve known for a lot, a lot of years. It’s like, okay, that guy, or that that lady I trust, implicitly, and wherever they are, that’s fine. So I think that, you know, the first thing is to move away from like, like an order taker type mentality, where it’s like, I have an order, and I need this person, and here’s the five requirements and go get that person and bring it back. To me, it’s like, when you’re doing that, you’re losing a lot of the benefit of that subtle, the subtleties of the role that probably are important to the success of the role. And when you’re able to have those kind of open and transparent conversations of like, Well, you know, what this person is really directive, and if the person doesn’t like to kind of doesn’t have like, pretty thick skin, that’s not gonna really work. Yeah, you can’t put that in the role. But the reality is, when you hire if that person is like, you know, in a type hard personality, they’re never going to get along, and it will just be a wasted process for both people. So I think there does need to be a level of like trust and understanding between you know, the hiring manager and whoever that strategic partner is this trying to source the individuals because they are really the people that are talking with, you know, the candidates that are trying to understand what’s going on and find a good fit, you know, not just a technical fit or skill base fit or competency fit, but like a cultural fit a personality fit a you know, more of like the soft things that really make things work out well. When you see somebody and you go, you know what, I dislike him or she’s just great to work with, like, what does that mean? Well, I think those skills, you know, strategic vendors and partners find a way to kind of harness those, those folks. And the other thing that comes to mind is I think there’s a lot of, you know, Debi placed some people that were like, with with me that, you know, I would have probably never hired on paper that they just, I want to see the not hireable. But, you know, I would have never ever picked them out. And I think over time, you start to build relationships with some folks, you know, you know, both sides as a hiring manager, and as a candidate to say like, yeah, you know, you have these longer relationships. And I think that as people get a little bit more, you know, tenured in there, they’re recruiting and hiring enroll, they build longer relationships, where like, that person might not be available for five years, but when they pop up, yeah, the conversation every 18 months, or 12 months, or six months, or, you know, you pinged once in a while or something, and it’s like, hey, yeah, this would be a great fit for you. And you’re like, Oh, cool. And I think that some of those folks, you know, found their way into, into Regeneron, as a result of, you know, Debi just being a strong advocate for them. And I think the same thing happens in other spaces, too, that, you know, when you start to have all these different types of HR Systems, a lot of the recruiters, you know, don’t have time, especially internal recruiters don’t have time to really think, you know, there’s just too many different things. And I think, inversely, when people get, you know, rejected or passed over, they think, wow, I thought I had the skills, I guess I don’t and it’s like, no, I guess you probably do have the skills, somebody probably never saw your resume. And you certainly think of the systems like, namely a workday or Bamboo HR or XLS, or, you know, the iris systems. All these systems are like filtering candidates out. And I had a funny example of a individual.

Katrina Collier 26:48
There were humans filtering them out. The systems aren’t that good? Yet.

Peter Nichol 26:53
Well, that. I mean, I looked at some of the Workday stuff, you know, the reality is that humans aren’t really filtering them out, you know, there’s rule sets that say, Hey, if you’re not in this geographic area, I don’t even want to.

Katrina Collier 27:05
Oh I see. Got you. Ok.

Peter Nichol 27:06
Well, basically, if you don’t have these five skills that I’ve tagged as buzzwords, you’re not going to be in the top 10%, I’m only going to look at the top 10% because I received 500 resumes. So those individuals never had the resume, SOP, you know, I think that’s where you, when you partner with a strategic, you know, recruiting company or somebody like, you know, yourself or Debi, where you start to realise is like those people, that maybe the resume isn’t perfect. But individually, they’re like World Class individuals that need to have time, then you start to I mean, I remember one, you know, I won’t name of the name, but one guy I interviewed, and I think I hired him in like, you know, 10 minutes. And for like, you know, six months, I said, I didn’t want to see his resume. You know, I didn’t want Yeah. And it was like, you know, what do you just please give him some time. And instead of a 30 minute call, I think it’d be impressed. It was like, bang, I hired him. And I was like, figure out the rates later. Yeah, and that’s just a result of like, having an awesome advocate, you know, for those candidates. And that’s where I think hiring managers can really, you know, really benefit if they have that strong strategic partner.

Katrina Collier 28:12
Exactly. And you must have saved so much time down the line as well. Plus, everything was successful because of it. It’s the, it’s take the time, so really, for your advice for recruiters is, you know, build the trust. And I guess with in house teams, they almost need to go will be given more time. And then unfortunately, they’re seen as a cost center, whereas the people bringing in the people, it’s crazy. But build those relationships, gain the trust. Yeah.

Peter Nichol 28:41
Like even if you can’t, you know, because I think what you were seeing now is, with, with, you know, category management and strategic sourcing, and all these different things that are popping up now as buzzwords in procurement. You know, a lot of our organisations are saying, Well, you can’t talk to the hiring manager, you know, like, nobody will ever get to talk to me, I’ll just get a random email with the resume, and it’s a yes or no. So I think that there’s still an opportunity for those, you know, strategic partners to find the hiring managers and build the relationships anyway. Yeah. Even though it’s not like, oh, here’s, you know, Mary’s resume, it might not be that it might be like, hey, there’s a bunch of people coming up. And you know, over the next couple of weeks, you may see some people come through, keep your eye on that, because a couple of them are really, you know, world class and hard to find, I can’t believe they, you know, just decided to leave because that’s happened. And they’re available now. They’re really, you know, shining stars. And I think that as you start to flow through the years, you build those relationships and then and those don’t really go away. You know, that company that that hiring manager is working at isn’t managing all the relationships are really not it’s, it’s the individuals that are managing the relationships, and that’s where the potential is

Katrina Collier 29:52
Totally amazing. You’ve dropped so much knowledge in this 30 minutes. It’s extraordinary. I’m definitely going to get books now. If people want to find you what’s the easiest way if they’d like to connect with you and find out more?

Peter Nichol 30:08
Sure, the easiest ways is probably on LinkedIn. Just Peter Nichol, you know, LinkedIn to search for Peter B Nichol on LinkedIn and I’m, I’m available, feel free to connect them always open to new expiring minds.

Katrina Collier 30:20
Brilliant. And I will of course put a link to your LinkedIn profile below in the blurb so people can find you there. Um, thank you again for carving out the time to talk to us. I’m like mind blown. I’ve written that many notes while you’ve been talking, to listen to it again. So I do appreciate it so much. And again, just thank you. Huge thank you for all of that information.

Peter Nichol 30:43
Sure. I appreciate the opportunity to chat with everybody. Have an awesome day.

Katrina Collier 30:47
Thank you for listening to The Hiring Partner Perspective (Unedited) podcast, proudly supported by the people at WORQDRIVE. Hopefully, you really enjoyed what you heard and have left feeling inspired. And if so, I would love your help to create real change. Please pass this podcast on to your hiring leaders and other recruiters and HR. even share it on your social channels, if you feel so inclined. But the more reach we can get, the more change we can create. So please remember to subscribe, of course, on your favourite podcast platform. And do come and say hello @HiringPartnerPerspective on Instagram where I share behind the scenes of what’s going on. Until next time. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai